油门踏板的 A 与 B 靠在一起了,你即使松开油门踏板,踏板也回不来了,因为 A 与 B 之间太紧密了,摩擦力太大了,超过了弹簧的张力。
那为何丰田车子会突然加速呢?按照物理学常识,油门踏板由于 A 与 B 过紧而不能弹回来,那油门也不会加大,虽然不会减小。其实,对这个问题我没看到解释。以润涛阎的猜测,也就是理论和逻辑推理,是因为开车的人发现油门没回来,卡住了,就想去踩一下,让它弹回来。可这一踩不要紧,油门踏板的 A 与 B 的接触面更大了,摩擦力也更大了,它就无法弹回来了不算,油门也加大了。这就是那位警察开Lexus 车子跑到120 迈的速度才撞毁的缘故。
您如果仔仔细细读完了上面润涛阎的解释,您就应该知道了:加上一块铁片,油门踏板的 A 与 B 就无法让油门开到最大了。因为油门开不到最大,真空管里的真空就能够让刹车不失灵。也就是说,丰田的这个补救办法不是说车子以后不会卡住油门了,而是卡住后,也不会刹不住车。即使驾驶员反复放开刹车,因为真空没问题,车子还会刹住的。
当然,丰田说以后不会卡住了。其实,道理在于:由于 A 与 B 的接触面积不能达到原来那么大了,摩擦力也就不会那么大了。但润涛阎以为:那块铁片不能太厚,因为太厚就无法加速了。也就是说,卡住的事还会发生的,只是即使发生,刹车系统不失灵,导致送命的情况就少了。车子能刹住,发动机发疯,那就让它疯一会好了。等你停下来,把发动机关掉,车子冷下来后,油门踏板一冷缩, A 与 B 之间就不那么紧了,弹簧就把它弹回来了。你再上路,继续享受开车的刺激。只要没有生命危险,有点刺激是人生的一种额外享受,要不怎么那么多人花钱去转那个6 flag 、迪尼斯之类的呢?
在所有的日本车中,只有Subaru 出的所有车种都是达标的G (好),其它的日本车有一个是本田的 Honda Element 达标外,全部不达标。只是因为美国高速公路管理局还没有把翻车能活下来作为指标,日本人就钻这个空子。尤其是丰田,连一辆达标的车都没有,丰田出了那么多种车,没有一种车是 G 。假如你开的不是Subaru ,而是其它日本车,那你就要小心了,千万别翻车,一旦翻车,你和乘客性命难保。
The CTS pedal has a friction arm that is designed to generate a certain degree of friction necessary for the proper functioning of the electronic gas pedal. In our earlier tear down and analysis, we pointed out that the CTS design is inferior to others, such as the Denso unit also used in Toyotas. The friction arm is subject to wear and contamination that increases friction to the point of creating a sticky gas pedal.
The friction arm is a pivoted fulcrum; the end with the “friction teeth” rides in two grooved channels in the pedal assembly. Both these parts are made from plastic. The other end of the friction arm is held in place by the return spring, which exerts the pressure necessary to generate the friction. As the friction teeth wear, the gap on the other end increases in relation to the housing. Toyota’s shim is inserted in this gap in order to reduce/limit the amount of friction, and to compensate for wear.
The gap is to be measured by a feeler gauge (photo above), which determines the thickness of shim that is then inserted in the gap. The shim then limits the travel of the fulctum on the spring end, thereby reducing the amount of friction on the teeth as they ride in the grooves.
The next step is to open the gap by inserting a narrow-shank screwdriver, so that the correctly-sized shim can be installed. The unit has been turned upside down to facilitate that.
The shim (gray steel) is now slid in, and positioned behind a lip that serves to retain it. The shim is kept in place by the pressure of the return spring on the fulcrum, but we wonder whether a strong jolt might not be able to dislodge it. If it did become dislodged, it could potentially cause serious problems. No one would ever design a unit like this with a loose metal shim that was held in place by spring pressure only.
The next picture shows the shim all the way in place behind the lip. It’s a good thing that lip exists, otherwise this fix would not be possible.
The photo above shows the inside of the unit, with the friction arm extending forward. The shim is clearly visible as the shiny gray rectangle. The pivot axles extending out on both sides of the fulcrum/friction arm are visible as two small white/gray pieces, just below and to both sides of the shim. The friction teeth are visible towards the front of the unit, riding (now higher) in their grooves.
This photo above was taken previously of the same pedal. It’s difficult to tell exactly from the slightly different angles whether the teeth are riding higher with the shim, but it does appear so. And a subjective impression was that the pedal had somewhat less friction. So the fix may well reduce the friction below a dangerous level, but for how long?
The only way we interpret the necessity of measuring the friction arm gap and choosing an appropriately sized shim is that the older units with more wear will have a smaller gap than the new(er) ones. The shim will compensate for that wear, but in a static, not dynamic way. As soon as the continued wear on the friction arm changes its size or other friction characteristics, the pedal is potentially back to the same sticky situation as before.
The shim’s effect on reducing the amount of friction will presumably slow down the wear process, but intrinsically, this is not a permanent fix to a very critical part, from a safety point of view. This is why the CTS-type pedal design is flawed, because it is subject to changes in the amount of friction it generates due to wear and other factors.
The only other explanation for the varying gap size and different shims is that the manufacturing tolerances are so great, that this is necessary to compensate for them. That’s that hard to imagine, for such a critical part. But if so, it raises other serious questions about this unit. Either way, it reinforces our position that Toyota needs to replace all the CTS pedals with Denso pedals or another proven pedal design, as soon as they are available. The shim fix is a Band Aid, and does not inspire the confidence that Toyota urgently needs to instill in its customers and the market place at this critical time.
Update: Given that Toyota has acknowledged that these pedal assemblies cost them $15, it would obviously be cheaper (and more reliable) to swap out the CTS units with the Denso unit rather than this fussier and riskier fix. The problem is time; it could take many months if not a year or more to change tooling and produce 2.3 million units. Meanwhile, making these shims was obviously something that a stamping manufacturer could do in days.
阎兄, 我刚买个二手的Chrysler Town&Country van. 开了几次,总共不到50迈就不走了. AUTO SHOP 说我被SCAMMED了,TRANSMISSION IS GONE. 有可能那DEALER在里边加了点东西, 让TRANSMISSION可以多活几天.
想问问你的看法, 咱对车是外行.
谢了.
Toyota Motor Corp.’s China car sales beat General Motors Corp.’s in the first nine months of the year, as the Japanese company threatens to end GM’s 77-year reign as the world’s largest automaker.
Toyota’s two Chinese ventures boosted nine-month sales 30 percent to 407,427 cars and sport-utility vehicles. GM’s car sales were little changed at 373,945, according to Bloomberg calculations based on data issued by the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers.
回复cecil的评论:
Cecil,我相信您很专业,不过太过于全盘否定了,楼主本来就不在这里发表学术论文,细节错误是很可能的,文章并不是以技术语言写成的,技术细节不可能精确。至于"日本车的零件是两层皮的", it is just a figure of speech. I don't take it literally. 我喜欢这篇文章的要点,楼主的风格就是夸张个人观点!This is a place for expressing yourself. One's writing style may be exaggerated but entertaining, as long as the main ideas are based on facts. It does not have to be politically correct, or academically measured?
ee1994 发表评论于
我有个问题请教楼主:how to find out whether a toyota car has CTS gas padel or Denso gas padel? We have a 2001 toyota camry and a 2006 toyota prius. They are not currently in recall list. But I want to find out more about our fmaily cars. 谢谢
我都不想在这里重新贴回楼主指 "丰田回收修车後会令极速减低,而普通车主不觉",这种不负责任和诽谤的言论。记录我是有的,楼主你更改就得吗?文章可以更改,但无知是改不了,这些全无技术的批评简直是小孩都不如,何况是出自个博士的文章???
本人就不是博士,不是 a range of car 的车主,不是经常发表 Blog, 这里出文都是因为楼主而注册。
An article with detailed information, analysis, and data based not on hearsays or isolated examples, but on rich personal experience over a long period and covers a range of cars.
Those who have owned less than a handful of cars but are willing to comment have a good will, too, to prove from the other sides.
But they need to widen the perspective and learn how to debate, rather than merely drop a line or two saying it is not valid.
“So the fix may well reduce the friction below a dangerous level, but for how long?
The only way we interpret the necessity of measuring the friction arm gap and choosing an appropriately sized shim is that the older units with more wear will have a smaller gap than the new(er) ones. The shim will compensate for that wear, but in a static, not dynamic way. As soon as the continued wear on the friction arm changes its size or other friction characteristics, the pedal is potentially back to the same sticky situation as before.”
Why does Toyota need outside help? Insiders are often helpless with those events of very low probability.
A certain drug was suspected of suddenly causing deaths to patients in China. The top authority set a deadline to experts to solve the problem. All the tests showed the product was OK. Meanwhile, the police opened a separate criminal investigation, and detectives interviewed all the production staff. The police knew nothing about technology, but they did find out the only change was an insignificant procedure in another product.This clue from police helped the experts to identify the tiny amount of impurity.
By the way, Black Swan is a good book about the improbable.
solo1 发表评论于
I never have had a car from Toyota, but a friend found out the unintended acceleration of Toyota Camry about two years ago during the first test drive at the dealer. He thought it was a system design problem and not a big deal, so he bought the car. His advice: Just do not press the gas pedal too harsh. He is quite experienced, from the days of repairing tractors and combines at Beidafan.
thanks for your comments. however,"the explanation with different thermal expansion for brake failure" is not what i thought. i said that "the explanation with different thermal expansion ... for gas pedal...".
i believe that the vaccum is the cause for the brake failure.
Best regards!
solo1 发表评论于
The author certainly has real knowledge and hands-on experience with cars. But the explanation with different thermal expansion for brake failure seems not valid. Toyota does not give a convincing explanation either.
The rare and non-reproducible problem is very difficult for inside experts. The president of Toyota admitted this and asked for outside help. Unfortunately he turned to the wrong people, or quality control people, for help. Quality control is the strength of Japanese cars. Mr. Toyoda should ask someone like the author for help.
I have a question about Toyota cars.
I bought a 2009 Toyota Corolla LE. Since the VIN of this car starts with "J", I did not receive any letter for recall.
Can you tell me the difference of car manufactured in Japan and in other country?
I have driven this car for 10 months. It is still pretty good and smooth. Do you suggest I should sell this car?
Thanks a lot
Power steering使用液压也同时需要真空?给个链接看看?俺在汽车行业也呆了不少年了,倒是第一次听说。你所说的corolla的例子不成立,俺恰巧知道corolla的power steering是不用真空做动力的。但当操作转向时power steering确实会通过一个真空开关提高发动机转速(车速很低时)以增加转向助力。
阎先生 is misleading the readers: Shifting to 1st or 2nd gear while the engine is running at high RPM is not going to slow down the car. First, with automatic transmission, shifting to 1st or 2nd gear doesn't mean you will get 1st or 2nd gear immediately. The onboard computer will look at the car speed and shift from 5th to 4th, 3rd and 2nd and 1st gear depending on the car speed. This is to prevent damage to the transmission. Second, when engine speed can be as high as 6K to 7K RPM when gas padel is stuck, you car can still be accelerating (If you drove a manual shift before, you know this).
Follow NHTSA's recommendation and shift to "Neutral" when the gas pade is stuck!
I have a 206 Camry. I have the same problem. The brake is very weak. Honda and Nissan have much better brakes. Also
changing to softer brake pads helps. The 350Z's brake is very very good although the pads don't last long.
回复润涛阎的评论:
1) is incorrect. If brake parts (rotors and pads) become too hot, brake will not function normally and that's called "Fade". That's why you should not put your foot on brake when going down hill for a long time. I personally experienced brake "fake" with Nissan 350Z for several times. Read "Car and Driver" and you will find that this is a common issue with sports cars.
估计丰田有人看了楼主的文章,终于考虑安装‘刹车是爷系统’了。
Japanese carmaker Toyota will add a brake-override system to all new vehicles as it seeks to recover from a global car recall.
About roof strength: I just checked IIHS test results, and Japanese cars are some of the best. For example, in Midsize moderately priced cars catogery, Toyota Camry is rated good, having the BEST strength-to-weight ratio of 5.31. Compared to Ford Fusion's 3.33, and even the Volvo S40 has only 3.92 (both rated acceptable). See http://www.iihs.org/ratings/roof/detailsbyclass.aspx?30
Conclusion: either the author purposefully misleads readers, or he does not know what he is talking about.
Maybe the driver accidentally dropped a piece of magnetic stone or something, that caused a a confusion.
Boy, taking a closer look at this pedal, i am so scared, it "IS CONNECTED TO THIN ELECTRONIC WIRES!!!!!", I always imagined there is a metal lever connect to the throttle! Does anyone know if a BMW X5 (2006 model) is also connected through a wire?
有道理。Several comments:
1。日本车做工精细但不经撞,美国车经撞但做工粗糙,这个 开车的人都知道。之
所以人们多买日本车,恐怕更多的还是出于耐用性的考虑。买车也是权衡各种利弊
的一个过程。今后人们在选车时可能会把安全性的权重加高而选择欧美车,毕竟生
命的意义远高于其他一切。日本车肯定会失去一部分market share, American car
may get some。但恐怕欧洲车会 gain the most if think about the quality and
reliability。
2。没看懂为什么油门全打开后刹车的真空会lost。感觉给油和刹车是两个不同的系
统。难道它们是coupled的吗?如果是coupled的,那很可能电控和软件may play bigger
roles in the failure。懂行的给解释一下?
3。跟换档一样,switch off "Over drive" 也可以改变齿轮的传速比达到减速的目
的。
Some of the author's opinions make sense. Other's not:
1) Camry has weak brakes. This is true. But Honda and Nissan have good brakes. I own a Camry, a Odessey and a Nissan 350Z. The camry brake is really really weak and my wife almost tailgated the car in front the first time she drove it. Toyota really did a poor job on the brake.
2) Poor American drives Japanese cars. This is not true. A lot of my co-workers, some of them are rich and none of them are poor, drive Japanese cars. They buy Japanese cars because American cars have developed very poor reputation in the last 20 years.
3) Used Toyotas are priced cheap. This is no longer true in last 10 years. Toyotas resale value is much higher than American cars now (before the recalls).
If I found the car stops reacting I will try putting it to N (neutral) first, if that fails I will turn off the engine. And I will step on the brake with all forces, and perhaps apply the handbrake as well. It will take the Lexus 30 seconds to go to 120 mph. Obviously the police guy is not thinking - he had time to talk to 911 but his should focus on thinking...
The thermal expansion coefficients of carbon steel with different strength would be roughly the same. But there may be considerable differences if special alloys are used.
Could you please explain more indetail on your statement: "而刹车用的 power brake (动力刹车系统),需要真空"? I though the "power break" machnism was "pressure" from an oil-cylinder, instead of "vacuum". Thanks!
我的地址: zheng88usa@yahoo.com.
Thanks for your attention.
felicia_f 发表评论于
好文章谢谢啦
starwars 发表评论于
牛人.阎大哥在那里修车?
东方邪 发表评论于
阎大侠全才啊,长见识了。
marxu 发表评论于
高!实在是高!
留意 发表评论于
尼桑是不是更差劲啊?我家有一辆VAN,不知道刹车是不是也有问题。
yyang3 发表评论于
回复planojw的评论:
1. Is 日本车 the only one that has recall?
others recall voluntarily, toyota is the only one not so voluntarily.
2. Is this the first recall ever happen to 日本车?
same as 1.
3. Why this recall has such high publicity?
think it this way, if you hold all the recalls from past 10 years into one day, did you think it will get high publicity? I would say it not high enough yet.
4. There are 19 death caused by car issue. What's the default % from all the people who owns 日本车?
are you saying when SUA happens, only certain % of your body will die?
5. How many people had accident due to reasons are not car defacts?
what's the difference? the accident caused by car defect are not accident?
6. Does every part necessary to be built by steel? If so, you probably need to drive a tank rather than car.
so you are driving a car made of plastic, uh, in another word, a toy car?
7. Some non-Jap car makers products will require frequent visit to dealership, even the warranty is free. Is that high quality?
jap quality is not high quality, when I was in china, I did repair a lot electronics, and I learned what beauty on surface means by open those jap electronics. after came here I start repair cars, and I learned it again by open those jap cars.
I personally think this recall hype is 08's way of promoting US cars.
obviously you came here not long. if u know that happened to Audi during 80s and Mitsubishi during 90s, you will understand what happened now.
Before we conclude that 日本车 are all poorly built, let's ask ourselves following questions:
1. Is 日本车 the only one that has recall?
2. Is this the first recall ever happen to 日本车?
3. Why this recall has such high publicity?
4. There are 19 death caused by car issue. What's the default % from all the people who owns 日本车?
5. How many people had accident due to reasons are not car defacts?
6. Does every part necessary to be built by steel? If so, you probably need to drive a tank rather than car.
7. Some non-Jap car makers products will require frequent visit to dealership, even the warranty is free. Is that high quality?
I personally think this recall hype is 08's way of promoting US cars.
jewishgirl 发表评论于
How about 99VW passat?
Does it have brake assitant? Is that good?
We are lucky. We just sold our Camry last summer and we have two VW now.
purenaturalhoney 发表评论于
大长了学问,谢谢。不过我开的是2008年的Prius, 只有R,N, D, B 这几裆,假如油门失灵的话,我应该放到哪一档上呢?
不胜感激。
totally agree, especially the 两层皮, another example, the nuts and bolts used on jap car are soooooooooo soft, it is impossible to not break a bolt when working on a old jap car.
油门踏板的 A 与 B 靠在一起了,你即使松开油门踏板,踏板也回不来了,因为 A 与 B 之间太紧密了,摩擦力太大了,超过了弹簧的张力。
那为何丰田车子会突然加速呢?按照物理学常识,油门踏板由于 A 与 B 过紧而不能弹回来,那油门也不会加大,虽然不会减小。其实,对这个问题我没看到解释。以润涛阎的猜测,也就是理论和逻辑推理,是因为开车的人发现油门没回来,卡住了,就想去踩一下,让它弹回来。可这一踩不要紧,油门踏板的 A 与 B 的接触面更大了,摩擦力也更大了,它就无法弹回来了不算,油门也加大了。这就是那位警察开Lexus 车子跑到120 迈的速度才撞毁的缘故。
您如果仔仔细细读完了上面润涛阎的解释,您就应该知道了:加上一块铁片,油门踏板的 A 与 B 就无法让油门开到最大了。因为油门开不到最大,真空管里的真空就能够让刹车不失灵。也就是说,丰田的这个补救办法不是说车子以后不会卡住油门了,而是卡住后,也不会刹不住车。即使驾驶员反复放开刹车,因为真空没问题,车子还会刹住的。
当然,丰田说以后不会卡住了。其实,道理在于:由于 A 与 B 的接触面积不能达到原来那么大了,摩擦力也就不会那么大了。但润涛阎以为:那块铁片不能太厚,因为太厚就无法加速了。也就是说,卡住的事还会发生的,只是即使发生,刹车系统不失灵,导致送命的情况就少了。车子能刹住,发动机发疯,那就让它疯一会好了。等你停下来,把发动机关掉,车子冷下来后,油门踏板一冷缩, A 与 B 之间就不那么紧了,弹簧就把它弹回来了。你再上路,继续享受开车的刺激。只要没有生命危险,有点刺激是人生的一种额外享受,要不怎么那么多人花钱去转那个6 flag 、迪尼斯之类的呢?
在所有的日本车中,只有Subaru 出的所有车种都是达标的G (好),其它的日本车有一个是本田的 Honda Element 达标外,全部不达标。只是因为美国高速公路管理局还没有把翻车能活下来作为指标,日本人就钻这个空子。尤其是丰田,连一辆达标的车都没有,丰田出了那么多种车,没有一种车是 G 。假如你开的不是Subaru ,而是其它日本车,那你就要小心了,千万别翻车,一旦翻车,你和乘客性命难保。
The CTS pedal has a friction arm that is designed to generate a certain degree of friction necessary for the proper functioning of the electronic gas pedal. In our earlier tear down and analysis, we pointed out that the CTS design is inferior to others, such as the Denso unit also used in Toyotas. The friction arm is subject to wear and contamination that increases friction to the point of creating a sticky gas pedal.
The friction arm is a pivoted fulcrum; the end with the “friction teeth” rides in two grooved channels in the pedal assembly. Both these parts are made from plastic. The other end of the friction arm is held in place by the return spring, which exerts the pressure necessary to generate the friction. As the friction teeth wear, the gap on the other end increases in relation to the housing. Toyota’s shim is inserted in this gap in order to reduce/limit the amount of friction, and to compensate for wear.
The gap is to be measured by a feeler gauge (photo above), which determines the thickness of shim that is then inserted in the gap. The shim then limits the travel of the fulctum on the spring end, thereby reducing the amount of friction on the teeth as they ride in the grooves.
The next step is to open the gap by inserting a narrow-shank screwdriver, so that the correctly-sized shim can be installed. The unit has been turned upside down to facilitate that.
The shim (gray steel) is now slid in, and positioned behind a lip that serves to retain it. The shim is kept in place by the pressure of the return spring on the fulcrum, but we wonder whether a strong jolt might not be able to dislodge it. If it did become dislodged, it could potentially cause serious problems. No one would ever design a unit like this with a loose metal shim that was held in place by spring pressure only.
The next picture shows the shim all the way in place behind the lip. It’s a good thing that lip exists, otherwise this fix would not be possible.
The photo above shows the inside of the unit, with the friction arm extending forward. The shim is clearly visible as the shiny gray rectangle. The pivot axles extending out on both sides of the fulcrum/friction arm are visible as two small white/gray pieces, just below and to both sides of the shim. The friction teeth are visible towards the front of the unit, riding (now higher) in their grooves.
This photo above was taken previously of the same pedal. It’s difficult to tell exactly from the slightly different angles whether the teeth are riding higher with the shim, but it does appear so. And a subjective impression was that the pedal had somewhat less friction. So the fix may well reduce the friction below a dangerous level, but for how long?
The only way we interpret the necessity of measuring the friction arm gap and choosing an appropriately sized shim is that the older units with more wear will have a smaller gap than the new(er) ones. The shim will compensate for that wear, but in a static, not dynamic way. As soon as the continued wear on the friction arm changes its size or other friction characteristics, the pedal is potentially back to the same sticky situation as before.
The shim’s effect on reducing the amount of friction will presumably slow down the wear process, but intrinsically, this is not a permanent fix to a very critical part, from a safety point of view. This is why the CTS-type pedal design is flawed, because it is subject to changes in the amount of friction it generates due to wear and other factors.
The only other explanation for the varying gap size and different shims is that the manufacturing tolerances are so great, that this is necessary to compensate for them. That’s that hard to imagine, for such a critical part. But if so, it raises other serious questions about this unit. Either way, it reinforces our position that Toyota needs to replace all the CTS pedals with Denso pedals or another proven pedal design, as soon as they are available. The shim fix is a Band Aid, and does not inspire the confidence that Toyota urgently needs to instill in its customers and the market place at this critical time.
Update: Given that Toyota has acknowledged that these pedal assemblies cost them $15, it would obviously be cheaper (and more reliable) to swap out the CTS units with the Denso unit rather than this fussier and riskier fix. The problem is time; it could take many months if not a year or more to change tooling and produce 2.3 million units. Meanwhile, making these shims was obviously something that a stamping manufacturer could do in days.