Jayant Bhandari 财富迁移、乱象与印度的全球地位

Jayant Bhandari 财富迁移、乱象与印度的全球地位

财富迁移、乱象与印度的全球地位——Jayant Bhandari 的残酷真相

Wealth Migration, Chaos & India’s Global Standing - Hard Truths with Jayant Bhandari

2025年2月26日

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikbg5nQHLtI&t=3s 

Jayant Bhandari 是矿业领域知名的机构投资顾问，也是温哥华“资本主义与道德”研讨会的创始人。他的社会文化、经济和政治评论拥有数百万的观看量，他以直言不讳、实事求是的视角审视印度的全球地位。

我们将讨论：

印度是否依然腐败混乱？

印度人的自我认知与全球认知

种姓制度、非理性与资源获取心态

印度的宪法是否与其社会价值观相符？

为什么有人说印度人难以适应海外生活？

财富迁移与印度的经济未来

中国在全球主导地位中不断演变的角色

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问

欢迎收听 URL unip 的另一期精彩播客，请离开。今天我们邀请到一位……呃，他来自加拿大，是矿业领域的机构投资顾问。他在温哥华举办年度哲学研讨会，主题是资本主义与道德，至今已有十多年。他的社会文化……经济和政治评论在 YouTube 上的观看次数已达数百万。欢迎巨擘 Bandari，先生，您好吗？嗯，我很好，谢谢您，也感谢您今天邀请我来到这里。谢谢您，谢谢您抽出时间。先生，好的，您在社交媒体上已经……很久了，据我所知，超过十年了。呃，您谈到印度……极其腐败，而且越来越混乱，大概在十年前，现在发生了很多事情，很多政府都发生了变化，所有这些事情，印度的处境又如何呢？相对于当今的主要大国

Jayant Bhandari

所以理解腐败和混乱的概念非常重要。嗯，现在当我看待这两个概念时，我肯定是从西方的角度来使用这些词的。嗯，从印度的角度来看，腐败和混乱与诚实的环境和社会秩序没什么不同。嗯，因为印度人实际上偏爱腐败，也偏爱混乱，这就是印度人的生存状态。他们喜欢混乱，喜欢噪音，喜欢浓烈的气味。如果没有这些东西，印度人就会感到生存危机。所以你的问题是，嗯，今天的印度与10年前或30年前我开始在印度媒体上写作时相比有何不同？嗯，问题是，在过去的30年里，在我的一生中，我看到印度的腐败现象不断增加，掌权者和负责任的人的品格越来越差，他们的行为也越来越粗鲁。所以，印度是一个随着时间的推移不断堕落和堕落的国家。简而言之，对你的问题的回答是，印度在腐败和混乱方面处于什么水平？现在的情况比现在糟糕得多，10年后，如果你问我，我会告诉你，10年后的情况会比现在糟糕得多。如果你去政府部门，你会发现索贿一点也不丢人。嗯，20或30年前，当我开始在印度工作时，呃，我当时自己一个人，没有呃，没有

受我父亲的指挥，我意识到索贿有一定的

羞耻感。过去，人们总是拐弯抹角。他们想要的，你必须创造一种欧盟式的委婉说法来形容行贿。如今，他们不仅公开索贿，还对自己索贿的数额感到非常自豪。事实上，嗯，几年前，在马迪邦，一个非常卑鄙的警官

跟我谈话时告诉我，他的房子比我父亲的房子还值钱。

现在，我父亲的房子是博帕尔最贵的房子之一，价值约200万美元，所以呃，这位小警察认为他的房子价值

超过200万美元。我不知道它在哪里，有多大，

具体有多大。但话说回来，无论你去哪里，找谁，你都可以去高等法院，可以去最高法院，可以去首席部长那里。在那个国家，唯一重要的事情就是腐败。哇，哇，就像你在国外一样，我也在墨尔本，嗯，我们一直可以看到很多不同的观点，印度人如何看待自己，他们的自我认知是什么，其他人对印度人的看法又是什么。所以你一开始问的是腐败和混乱的问题，我告诉过你，印度人实际上并不区分腐败与诚实，混乱与秩序，事实上，他们更喜欢腐败和混乱。同样，印度人没有自我认知的概念。印度人认为他们不会反思任何事情，呃，他们就像呃，就像一只狗，每时每刻都根据你感官的指示行事，所以他不会真正思考任何事情，他没有想法的概念，他没有思考的概念，这当然是300年前，当欧洲人开始来到印度时，欧洲人带来了思考的概念、哲学的概念、秩序的概念，不管你喜欢与否，我们都是M的孩子，我们说英语，我们与欧洲人提供给我们的小工具和技术进行互动，我们更喜欢被白人统治，这就是为什么你在澳大利亚而我在北美，因为我们不喜欢印度人的命令和统治，所以不管我们喜欢与否，我们都是我的大学生孩子，开始自我认知，印度人真的没有自我认知的概念，他们没有道德和目标的概念，与印度谈论思想和哲学真的很奇怪，因为嗯，你知道，我当然有几个朋友，我会和他们谈论思想和哲学，但如果我去新德里或孟买或博帕尔并开始谈论思想和哲学，人们会嘲笑我，他们会说嘿，你想成为圣人吗，所以印度人没有自我认知他们没有道德观念，即使他们有道德观念，他们也会嘲笑它，他们认为有道德就是优越。嗯，你经常谈到印度人的非理性思维，尤其是我们在国外看到的印度人的资源获取心态。

在印度，你会看到任何变化吗？或者你现在有什么看法？或者它会改变吗？哦，它正在改变，是的，它正在迅速改变。印度人越来越物质化，越来越倾向于获取资源。他们为了追求金钱而追求金钱。以前，印度有教育的概念，有阶级的概念，而所有这些东西都在

逐渐退化。所以，就他们的兴趣和资源获取而言，

这种兴趣持续增长，他们不在乎如何使用这些资源。

他们想要为了获取金钱而获取金钱。他们想成为百万富翁，他们想成为10个百万富翁，他们想成为100个百万富翁。几乎所有企业和

印度的资源获取都不是这样的。价值创造的背后是

他们想把钱从你的钱包

转移到自己的钱包，这就是他们的想法。印度创造的任何价值都是

偶然的，这是一种运气或机会，而不是商人或任何能够为他人提供价值的人的深思熟虑的过程。

所以印度人只在乎钱，只是为了在乎钱。现在我是一名

基金经理，一名分析师，我一直在玩弄金钱，我非常

热衷于积累金钱。积累金钱对于社会支柱来说极其重要，

但我希望把金钱作为利润来积累，

这意味着我希望通过为社会提供价值来积累金钱。我不想

玩零和博弈或负和博弈。印度人是虐待狂。

只有当他们相当清楚地知道

另一方（交易对手不是）在亏钱时，他们才会对赚钱感到高兴，这让他们

感到满足。所以，就资源获取的概念而言。令人担忧的是，他们非常兽性化，如今追求的是金钱和性。而现在，他们不想通过求爱过程来获得性。他们不想通过价值创造过程来获取金钱。他们现在什么都想要。无论是零和博弈还是负SU博弈，我都不在乎。事实上，他们更喜欢负和博弈，因为这样他们就认为他们得到了最好的交易。这听起来有点像种姓制度的延伸。这种形式对吗？嗯，成本制度。当你……用种姓制度来思考一切时，你对印度的分析就被扭曲了。嗯，成本制度。你知道吗？我以前在波尔的一所天主教学校上学，……直到我上了大学才知道成本制度的概念。后来我意识到，……来自低种姓的人比……来自高种姓的人更注重成本。很多高种姓的人实际上并不知道成本制度。嗯，所以首先，成本……制度非常重要。理解和欣赏成本制度非常重要。其次，这在人们的头脑中错综复杂。

与其说这是一个成本体系，不如说是每个印度人都在玩着一种衡量你的游戏。

当你在飞机上或任何地方遇到坐在你旁边的印度人时，他想知道你有多富有，你拥有什么样的权力，你有哪些关系，所以他们想从物质方面来衡量你。

这是印度人动物化的、物质化的思维方式。

他们并不真正想了解你是否为社会提供了价值，你是一个好人吗？你是一个

诚实的人吗？不，印度人不是这样想的。事实上，如果你去印度找新娘，新娘的父母更有可能对多少钱感兴趣。你的收入和肤色，所以现在这些是新娘父母要考虑的两个主要标准。

你如何赚钱与他们无关，事实上，他们会直接问你，嗯，你的贿赂收入是多少。所以他们真的不了解印度。

从根本上来说，印度没有美德的概念，也没有十诫，嗯，西方社会认为这些是理所当然的。所以，你觉得呢？

印度人不太适应外国社会，这种批评合理吗？

或者这是一个全球性的问题。除了某个民族之外，没有人能适应任何其他社会。我们最适合我们自己成长的社会。

当然，他们是变种人，我认为自己也是变种人。但几乎

每个去西方生活和工作的印度人，

都不是因为他们想离开印度，而是因为他们想把印度带走。

他们去西方的唯一原因是为了赚钱，我说的是99%或也许

95%离开印度的人都离开了，尽管他们

属于社会上层人士，但他们仍然对西方价值观不感兴趣，他们不想

适应西方文化，不想让自己融入西方社会，他们想继续做印度人，因为只有这样才能让他们感觉自己活着。

嗯，他们待在西方社会只有一个目的，那就是钱。所以

不，他们没有被同化，而今天，情况已经大不相同了。

当我开始在西方社会生活的时候，或者至少在那些日子里，

贫民窟更少了，现在你可以看到到处都是印度人的贫民窟。

撒哈拉以南非洲人的贫民窟遍布西方世界。你可以看到到处都是穆斯林的贫民窟。

这些不仅是穆斯林的贫民窟，还有巴基斯坦穆斯林、孟加拉国穆斯林的贫民窟。

或者锡克印度人，或者嗯，印度教马哈拉施特拉邦的印度人。或 telu 印度教

印度人，所以你会看到西方世界出现各种各样的贫民窟，而且

他们不仅保持着印度人的本性，而且随着时间的推移，他们的思想也变得近亲繁殖

这意味着这些人之间会发生一种奇怪的僵化现象

所以你的问题是，这些人是不是印度人，他们是唯一没有被同化的人？答案是，嗯，是的，也是的，

不是，因为是的，印度人不会被同化，但非洲人也不会被同化，西班牙裔也不会被同化

不一定会被同化

美国、加拿大、澳大利亚和新西兰

只是在某种程度上，当移民来到这些国家时，他们来自其他西方社会，

他们的种族是欧洲人，尤其是日耳曼人或

英国人，所以这些人最终会被同化，但他们

也是地球上思想最开放的人，他们是最不具部落意识的人

他们接受你，就像你一样

他们不一定会根据你的种族或宗教来评判你这些人的特点是他们最

开放的，他们被同化了，但这并不意味着

西班牙裔、非洲裔或印度裔会被这些社会同化，穆斯林也会被同化。他们都保持着

独特的身份认同，正如我所说，随着时间的推移，他们会变得更糟，变得

比他们祖国的人更糟糕，因为他们

在智力上近亲结婚了。唯一的例外是东亚人，呃，中国人

韩国人和日本人，嗯，嗯，在东道国做出了相当大的努力去同化，

这就是为什么人们认为日本人是美国最容易被同化的人群之一。

所以，如果同化真的发生，那也只是因为移居到西方社会的人来自其他欧洲国家或东亚，

而其他人

根本就不会被同化。同样地，嗯，如果一个白人，一个欧洲人，

因为任何原因移居到印度，他永远不会成为印度人，每个人都会

把他视为欧洲人。如果是欧洲女孩，男人会追着她，想和她合影，嗯，他在印度会得到特别的尊重，嗯，他永远不会被视为普通的印度人，也永远不会被同化，好吧，你觉得呢？我的意思是，我听到过一些学者问过我这些问题，嗯，基本上，你认为今天的印度宪法符合社会价值观吗？嗯，不，没有人知道羊皮纸上写的是什么，嗯，没有人关心它。印度宪法在任何地方都没有意义，我一生中遇到过一些非常顶尖的政客、法官、警察、官僚，没有人真正关心宪法，甚至法律，他们关心的是如何从客户那里榨取最多的贿赂，从他们所关心的公民那里榨取最多的贿赂，嗯，以及那些垃圾纸，没有人真正关心或关注，包括印度最高法院，嗯，如果你看看它，嗯 ...印度最高法院首席大法官现在正在疯狂追捕一位说这样话的人他的父母现在真的被贬低了，嗯，与此同时，你知道强奸案和谋杀案都在发生。最高法院对此不感兴趣，最高法院只关注那些在社交媒体上被毁掉的人。同样，嗯，据我所知，克什米尔是印度的一个独立部分。根据第370条，它不应该被并入印度。最高法院没有考虑到真正的法律，就认为它是印度的一部分。同样，如果你看看奥达拉姆神庙，你根本无法证明在清真寺建成之前，它是否是一座真正的神庙。嗯，但是嗯，这个最高法院是根据公众的意愿而不是法律的规定来运作的。所以印度宪法毫无价值。我告诉你，你可以去印度的法院，你可以去印度的警察局，没有人知道宪法甚至成文法规定了什么。他们做什么有效，他们就做什么，他们认为什么就是什么。嗯，他们能得到什么。废除

他们最容易受贿的原因是什么？因为这些法律和……所有这些合规性都不太明确，做生意也很困难。很多商人说，这就是原因之一，比如，过去几年，尤其是在新冠疫情之后，印度发生了大量的财富迁移。财富迁移从印度长期存在，印度人最大的意外之一就发生在……印度所谓的脱离英国独立后不久，同样，财富也……一直在离开印度，这就是为什么你能控制印度的资本，所以……印度政府限制你的资金从印度流向其他国家。有一种叫做“哈瓦拉”（havala）的东西，它运作非常高效。你可以把你的……印度卢比现金交给当地人，几个小时后，无论你在世界何处，你都可以收到……美元现金，送到你家门口。所以……它们是资本管制，这意味着人们会进行这种“哈瓦拉”交易，他们……他们捏造了一切。现在，印度上层阶级，也就是阿曼尼（Amani）或阿达尼（Adani）之类的人，正在想方设法把钱转移到国外。他们非常了解这个国家正在发生的事情，因为他们非常了解这个国家的政治秩序。他们了解这个国家存在着大量的腐败现象，他们也知道这个社会正在分崩离析。所以这些人，呃，印度的超级富豪们，一直以来都在把钱转移到国外，而且他们越来越多地把钱转移到国外。这可以追溯到你第一个问题，你问我印度的腐败问题是否有所改善，我说没有，情况正在恶化。印度最富有的人知道印度的情况正在日益恶化，而且会比现在更糟。所以他们正在把钱转移到国外。呃，同样地，上层中产阶级也在把大量的钱转移到迪拜、阿布扎比和新加坡，嗯，令人惊讶的是，你好。我目前在中国，上周我参观了一家中国化工厂。所有原料这家化工厂的原料来自印度，但最终他们没有在印度运营，因为他们完全了解在印度运营的难度，以及印度的腐败程度，所以他们宁愿不在印度运营，他们不得不把所有原料进口到中国，然后从中国出口，尽管他们现在面临着更高的关税，而当他们把最终产品供应给美国时，这说明了这个国家的情况有多糟糕，而且，只有那些在中东、新加坡和香港打工的人才会把钱汇到印度，这些人在印度的家庭非常贫困，他们现在需要钱，所以他们会把钱汇到印度，但你越富有，就越不可能把钱汇到印度，事实上，据我所知，居住在澳大利亚、美国和加拿大的非印度居民并不会把钱汇回印度，而那些受过教育的人更愿意在西方社会买房，而不是把钱汇出去。对

印度来说，是的，所以为了在全球舞台上提升我们自己，比如说，呃，我们应该关注什么？是像教育、创业、精神、司法等等很多方面吗？

领导力，像任何方面一样，我们可以关注这些方面吗？是的，是的。

这是一个假设性的问题，因为这些都不会发生。呃，印度将继续

堕落，将继续分崩离析，将继续成为一个更加物质化和堕落的社会。呃，因为呃，这就是那个社会的根基文化，它被强加了一层文化的外衣，一层文明的外衣，是由英国人、法国人和葡萄牙人强加的，所以印度的根基腐烂野蛮，文化将继续浮现，现在我们可以假设一下，什么可以改善印度，我会说，嘿，只需引进10万欧洲人来管理印度，或者50万欧洲人来管理印度，但这不会发生，因为欧洲人的能力不如200年前了。而且，世界已经发生了变化，民主也发生了变化，印度人的思维方式也发生了变化。他们不会引进50万欧洲人来管理这个国家，因为首先，在这样做之前，你必须在印度人中唤醒他们。他们怎么可能最终引进欧洲人来管理这个国家呢？实际上，迪拜和新加坡一直在这样做，他们想从世界各地招募最优秀的人才来管理他们的国家，而不是印度人。所以，你真的需要印度人中唤醒他们，然后才能形成一种文化。你开始邀请国外最优秀的人才回国，来印度管理这个国家，你知道，在当今世界运作的模式下，我认为这根本不可能实现。所以，嗯，我真的看不到印度的出路。繁荣、教育等等。这一切都对印度产生了负面影响。因为印度的领导力一直在下降。如果没有合适的领导力，人们就没有动力将财富和教育用于正当目的。他们没有动力以正确的方式利用这些资源。因为我们的领导力很差，而且领导力持续恶化，这意味着印度将继续衰落。我们可以假设如何改善领导力，但我无法改善领导力，因为我的选票不算数。而且，印度的根本文化是，随着时间的推移，领导力实际上会持续恶化。说到这个话题，如果我们有时崩溃任何讨论总是首先要讨论的，也是最重要的一点是，我们人口众多，贫困现象严重。

这就是讨论的起点，也是讨论的终点。是的，可以理解，很多人可能

有问题，但这是主要问题吗？不，这只是问题的表象。呃，你知道，我们拥有……呃，我们没有很多财富。印度没有很多……财富。那些声称印度拥有财富的人既在自欺欺人，也在欺骗他人。印度的人均GDP

只有大约2500美元，这在经济方面真的微不足道。

在现代科技时代，科技可以帮助我们生产如此多的产品，以至于印度的GDP

现在基本上不存在了。嗯，你知道，这取决于……印度人说我们人口众多，对他们来说，这也可能……意味着这赋予了印度超级大国的地位，或者……人口红利。但与此同时，当时间到了……他们真的

无法证明人口红利的存在，他们现在想把人口红利

转化为人口负债，这些都是我们印度问题的症状。

污染，印度贫困，印度人口过剩，这些都是问题的症状。

问题，而简单来说，真正的问题，核心问题，根本问题，是印度人

是不道德、不理性的人，他们无法合作，

无法在资本主义经济中团结起来运作，在资本主义经济中，

他们与其他人和谐合作，实现双赢。印度人不这么认为，

这就是为什么我喜欢说，一个由两个人组成的印度组织里，会多一个人，

因为这个国家的一切都运转不良，所以当你无法引进人才，当你无法生产任何东西时，

你就会贫穷，而你会有更多的人口，因为你不会真正

考虑，随着人口的增长，你是否可以养育更多的孩子。

市场上不缺避孕套或其他避孕药具，

而且它们都是现成的。如今，人们甚至不羞于开口购买这些东西。

现在你可以通过各种亚马逊或送货上门服务送货上门，所以购买避孕药具没有问题。真正的问题是：

印度人无法思考明天，他们无法思考明天，因为从根本上说，印度人

是不道德、不理性的人，他们无法思考明天。所以，你知道，

从另一个角度来看，欧洲人并非凭空而来。

你知道，他们也曾经贫穷，也曾经不幸，也曾经人口过剩，这可能是由于

他们拥有的自然资源有限。但他们开始

向前看，他们开始与他人和谐共事，以便能够积累资本，从而提高生产力。他们开始思考哲学和思想。

即使他们贫穷的时候，所以你

必须有这种想要

醒来的渴望，你的症状才会消散，但这些都是症状。人口和污染，这些都是问题的症状。根本问题是，印度人是不道德的人，不理性的人。如果你和印度人交谈，这些事情总是会出现。

他们，呃，与你互动非常不理性。你刚才在问题中说得对，

大多数印度人的谈话以思考结束和开始。他们的谈话没有

细微差别，没有深度，谈话中充斥着口号。

这就是我所说的，即使是受过教育的印度人，

也不对思想感兴趣，他们对哲学不感兴趣，对道德价值观不感兴趣。

这才是这个国家真正的核心问题，即使是受过教育的富裕印度人也深受其害。这也是我对印度最悲观的原因。

因为当我看到中国人变得更富有，或者东欧人变得更富有时，他们的社会意识会更强。变得更加注重哲学，而我在印度看到的却不是这样。他们越富有，就越变态，越物质化，

阶级意识也越强。嗯，如果你想让我举个很有意思的例子，我在资本市场工作，嗯，我曾经为几家大型基金工作过。我之前在一家大型基金全职工作，当时我

只是称自己为分析师。我从来没有正式的名片，我只有

一张写着我的名字和地址的名片，因为在北美西部，

人们不太在意你的职位。嗯，如果我打电话给一家美国、加拿大或澳大利亚的公司，我说，嘿，我想

了解一下你们的公司，嗯，首先，总会有

一些专业人士会问你们公司的情况，所以联系上

找人谈话并不困难，但通常因为我当时在一家大型基金工作，呃，是投资者关系专员。几乎总是会说，嘿，我会把你转接给我的CEO，因为你应该和CEO谈谈。然而，令人惊讶的是，我以前负责监控同一家公司基金的印度投资组合，当我打电话给印度公司时，他们总是问我的职位是什么，他们是否只允许我与那个与我在公司职位相符或相当的人见面交谈。我一直在纠结我在公司里的职位是什么。因为那不是我的想法，也不是我所做的。印度是一个阶级意识非常强的国家，越富有、受教育程度越高的人，他们的思想就越反常。不幸的是，正如你在中国广泛工作过一样，我知道这一点，我也看过你在中国的一些视频，但那不是中国，所以中国目前在全球舞台上的地位如何。首先，你永远不应该在同一句话里同时使用印度和中国，一个是火星，一个是木星，两者之间没有联系。这两个国家完全是两个不同的社会。中国是一个

持续进步的国家，它每天都在进步，我每三个月

都会看到中国在进步，它每次都变得更好。

我每次去印度，它都会变成最糟糕的国家，所以

根本无法比较。中国是一个伟大的国家，事实上，中国已经变成了一个非常好的国家，我的目标是，用我的钱，

我可以创造出一种比在北美好得多的生活方式。

毫无疑问，难怪我实际上在东亚待了很长时间。

这些天我喜欢韩国，我喜欢待在日本，我喜欢去日本的小地方，我喜欢去中国生活。

这些都是很棒的地方。中国在持续进步，物价便宜，

一切都在提高。昨天我在中国，我在中国，我去了一个农场摘水果。

昨天，我在一个小村庄里摘了一些我吃过的最美味的水果。

现在，我开车在新西兰转悠。我一直都在那里。我认为

猕猴桃橙是最好的橙子之一。我一直认为

草莓和其他浆果是加拿大最好的

其中最好的，但这只是在你尝过一些中国水果之前

它们很好，质量高，味道鲜美，几乎所有中国产品都是如此，

它正在改进，而且还在继续改进，更重要的是

中国人越来越文明了，随着时间的推移，他们排队，

他们尊重你的时间，

他们会说谢谢和请，

系统里有秩序，

所以他们经常给我提供比我在西方社会能买到的更好的质量，所以中国正在变得

中国正在变得更好，而印度却越来越糟，所以我不喜欢在与人交谈时在同一句话中提及这两个国家，因为这两个国家根本无法比较。现在，我找到了另一个解决印度问题的方案。我骨子里是个西方人，我更喜欢生活在西方社会，原因有很多。我热爱西方价值观，我热爱西方文明，我喜欢和西方人相处。然而，印度离西方社会太远，它的思维方式也与西方价值观相去甚远，以至于印度能为自己做的最好的事情就是成为中国的幕后黑手。印度应该无条件地向中国投降，因为它的武装部队根本无法阻止中国的任何攻击。所以，印度正在浪费金钱、资源和人才，建立一支武装部队来抵御中国，因为他们做不到。1962年，印度经济和中国经济水平相当，他们打不赢战争。现在，中国经济规模是印度的五到六倍，所以印度根本无法自卫。对抗中国，所以放弃军事竞争，实际上应该无条件投降，因为你们争夺的地区基本上都是沙漠，没有实际价值。此外，还要向中国人敞开大门，让他们进入印度，在印度设立公司和后台办公室，这将对印度穷人最有利，因为印度穷人现在需要工作，正如我所说，我去中国摘水果，你只需要去农场摘水果，在农场里想吃多少就吃多少，这不算数，他们会称重你拿到柜台的水果，然后你付给他们一小笔钱。为什么他们要这样做，因为中国现在劳动力短缺。如果印度现在向中国人和印度劳工开放，穷人可以进入中国，在中国当移民劳工赚钱，这有什么不对呢？但这将是解决印度问题的一个重要办法，我认为印度应该给予中国应有的尊重。好吧，我们应该结束我们的谈话了。很高兴和你聊天，Jant，大家都知道，如果你想按照自己的方式生活，这里就是正确的地方。

播客网址：感谢 John 抽出时间，感谢你给予的机会。

谢谢 [音乐]

Wealth Migration, Chaos & India’s Global Standing - Hard Truths with Jayant Bhandari

2025年2月26日

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikbg5nQHLtI&t=3s 

A renowned Institutional Investment Consultant in the mining sector and the founder of the Capitalism & Morality seminar in Vancouver. With millions of views on his sociocultural, economic, and political commentary, Jayant Bhandari brings an unfiltered, hard-hitting, factual perspective on India's global positioning.

We discuss:

Is India still corrupt and chaotic?

Indians' self-perception vs. global perception

Caste system, irrationality, and resource acquisition mindset

Does India’s constitution align with its societal values?

Why do some say Indians struggle to adapt abroad?

Wealth migration and India’s economic future

China’s evolving role in global dominance

<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

问

welcome to another exciting episode of URL unip and leave podcast today we have

someone uh who is based in Canada uh who is working as institutional investment

consultant in mining sector he runs a yearly philosophy seminar in Vancouver

called capitalism and morality for more than 10 years now his social cultural

economic and political commentary have been viewed in millions in YouTube please welcome giant bandari how are you,sir today um I'm very well thank you and thank you for having me on here today

thank you thank you for your time sir okay so you are in social media for a

long time more than 10 years as far as I know uh and you talked about India is

extraordinarily corrupt and increasing chaotic maybe a decade ago and lot of

things are happening now a lot of government have changed and all these things where is India's position relative to the major Powers today

Jayant Bhandari

so it's very important to understand the concept of corruption and Chaos uh now when I look at these two concepts I'm def using these words from a western perspective uh from the Indian perspective corruption and chaos is U no different from um saying honest environment and social order um because Indians actually have a preference for

corruption and they have a preference for chaos this is the state of existence of

the Indian mind they like chaos they like noise they like strong smells and

if you don't have those things Indians um feel an existential crisis so the question of yours is um how different is India today than it was 10 years back or 30 years back when I started actually writing in the Indian media um the the thing goam is that over the last three decades and over my life time I have continued to see corruption increase in India cha increase in India the classiness of the people in power and people in positions of responsibility and raw in their behavior so India is a country continue to degrade and degenerate with time so in very briefly the response to your question is where does India stand in terms of corruption and chaos it is far worse today and 10 years later when you ask me I will tell you exactly the same thing that 10 years later it will be far worse than it is today today goam if you go to a government office U there is zero shame involved in asking for bribes um 20 30 years back when I started working in India uh as by myself without uh without

being under the command of my dad I realized that there was a certain amount

of Shame involved in asking for bribes people used to beat around the bush they want you had to create a sort of EU euphemisms around giving bribes to people today not only they openly ask for bribes they feel very proud about the amount of bribes they ask for in fact um a few years back in bopal madhi Pradesh the one very Petty police

officer who I was talking with told me that he his house was worth more than my

dad's house now my dad's house was among the most expensive houses in bopal worth

about $2 million us so uh this Petty policeman thinks that his house is worth

more than $2 million I don't know where it was how big it was whether it was

what size it was but again wherever and whoever you go to you can go to the high

court you can go to the Supreme Court you can go to the Chief Minister the only thing M that matters in that country is uh corruption wow wow then as like you are also in abroad I'm also based in Melbourne um and we can see lot of like uh different opinions all the time how Indians seeing themselves what is their self-perception and what about the others also thinking about Indians so so you started with the question on corruption and chaos and I told you that Indians don't really differentiate

between uh corruption and honesty and Chaos and Order in fact they prefer

corruption and Chaos similarly Indians have no concept of self-perception U Indians don't think they don't reflect on anything uh they are like uh like a dog who who operates moment to moment based on U sensual U instructions he gets so he does not really reflect on anything he has no concept of ideas he has no concept of thinking and that was certainly the case 300 years back when uh Europeans started coming to to India uh Europeans brought in the concept of thinking the concept of philosophy concept of order and whether you like it or not we are M's children uh we speak English we uh we interact with gadgets and Technology provided to us by European an and we prefer to be ruled by white people that is why you are in Australia and I'm in North America because we do not prefer the command and Rule of Indians so whether we like it or not we are my college children and coming to self-perception uh Indians really don't have the concept of self-perception they don't have the concept of morality and goam it is really strange talking with IND about ideas and philosophy because um you know and I of course have a few friends with who I talk about ideas and philosophy but if I go to New Deli or Mumbai or bopal and start talking about ideas and philosophy people will laugh at me they will say hey are you trying to become a saint um so Indians don't have self-perception they don't have the concept of morality and to the extent they have the concept of morality they make fun of it they think that being moral is being Superior okay um you uh often spoke about the irrational mindset and especially the resource acquisition mindset of Indians uh we see in abroad

in India will you see any changes coming or what is your opinion now or it will in oh it's changing yeah it is changing very rapidly Indians are becoming more and more materialistic more and more uh acquirer of resources they they go after money for the sake of going after money there was a concept of Education there was concept of class in that country earlier and all those things are getting

uh degraded and uh so as far as their interest and resource acquisition is

concerned it continues to increase they don't care about using those resources

they want to acquire money for the sake of acquiring money they become millionaire they want to become 10

millionaires they become 10 millionaires they be want to become 100 Millionaires and virtually all businesses and

resource acquisition in India happens not on the back of value creation it's

on the back of a thought that uh they want to transfer money from your wallet

to their wallets that's the thinking any value creation that India has is um

incidental it is a luck or a chance rather than a thought through process by

businessmen or anyone who is in the position of providing value to other

people so Indians are money-minded for the sake of being money-minded now I'm a

fund manager I'm an analyst and I I play with money all the time and I I'm very

keen on um accumulating money accumulation of money is extremely

important as a pillar for the society but I want to accumulate money as a

profit which means that I want to accumulate money as a result of providing value to the society I do not

want to play a zero sum game or a negative sum game Indians are sadistic

they only feel good about making money when they know reasonably well that the

other party the counterparty is not is losing money that is what gives them a

sense of satisfaction so so as far as the concept of resource acquisition is

concerned they are very animalistic they are after money and sex today and now

they don't want to go through the courtship process to get sex they don't want to go through a value creation

process to acquire money they want everything now and whether it's a zero sum game or a negative SU game does not

really bother me bother them in fact they prefer it to be a negative sum game because then they think that they got

the best deal possible kind of a like a sounding me kind of a like extension of cast system

in this format is it right well the the cost system when you

think everything through the cast system you corrupt your analysis of India um

the cost system you know for me who went to a Catholic School in poal there was

no concept of cost system until I got to the university and then I realized that

people who were uh from the lower cast were much more cost conscious than

people from the higher cast a lot of higher cast people actually did not know about the cost system um so firstly cost

system is very uh understanding and appreciation of the cost system is very convoluted in the minds of people second

thing is that it's not so much a cost system it's the fact that every Indian is playing a game of sizing you up when

you meet an Indian sitting next to you on a plane or anywhere he wants to know how wealthy you are what what kind of

power you have and what kind of connections you have so they want to size you up in material terms and again

this is the m animalistic um materialistic way of thinking of Indians

they don't really want to understand whether you provide um value to the society are you a good person are you an

honest person no that's not how Indians think in fact if you go and look for a

bride in India the parents of bride will um more likely be interested in how much

money you make and what is the color of your skin so these are the two prime criterias for the parents of bride now

how you make that money is none of their concern in fact they will um outright

blatantly ask you how much is your uh income from bribery so they don't really have India

fundamentally does not have the concept of Virtues The Ten Commandments um that

the Western Society take for granted so uh what do you think the

Indians we are not very adaptable in the foreign Society is it a fair criticism

or it's a global issue Beyond just one nationality well no one is adaptive in

any other Society we are best suited for our own society that we grew up we in

now of course they are mutants and I consider myself a mutant but virtually

every Indian who goes to the west to live and work in the west goes there not

because he wants to leave India behind he wants to take India with him the only

reason he goes to the West is to make money and I'm talking about 99% or maybe

95% of the people who leave leave India despite the fact that these are the

upper crust of the society uh but is still they are not interested in Western values they don't

want to adapt themselves to the Western culture they don't want to acculturate

themselves to the Western Society they want to stay Indian because that is what gives them a a feeling of being living

um they are in the Western Society for only one thing uh which is money uh so

no they do not assimilate and today goam situation has become very different uh

when I started Living in the western Society uh the or at least those days

there were fewer ghettos now you see ghettos of Indians all over you see

ghettos of subsaharan Africans all all over the Western World you see ghettos

of Muslims everywhere and these are not only ghettos of Muslims they are ghettos of Pakistani Muslims Bangladeshi Muslims

or siik Indians or um Hindu maharashtrian Indians or telu Hindu

Indians so you see all kinds of ghettos developing in the western world and not

only they stay Indian goam they also become intellectually inbred with time

which means that a strange kind of fossilization happens among these people

so your question is uh do these people are Indians the only people who don't assimilate the answer is uh yes yes and

no because yes Indians don't assimilate but neither do Africans assimilate neither do Hispanics assimilate people

don't necessarily assimilate uh the United States Canada Australia and New

Zealand were melting points only to the extent that immigrants who were coming

to these countries were coming from other Western societies who were people

of European ethnically European origin particularly people of of Germanic or

English origin so these people eventually assimilated but these are the

also the most open-minded people on the planet they are the least tribal people

they accept you as U as you are they don't judge necessarily judge you based

on your racial or religious characteristics so these are the most

open-minded people they assimilated but because they assimilated does not mean

that Hispanics Africans or Indians would assimilate in these Societies or Muslims would assimilate they all maintain a

distinct identity and I as I said they become worse with time they becomes

worse than what their the people of their Homeland are because they become

intellectually inbred the only exception to this rule is East Asians uh Chinese

Koreans and Japanese make um um quite a bit of effort to assimilate in the host

countries and that is why it is believed that Japanese are among the most assimilated people in the United States

so U if assimilation ever happens it is only as long as people who move to a

western Society come from other European countries or from East Asia other people

simply don't assimilate and similarly um if a white person if a European person

moves to India for any reason he will never be become an Indian everyone will

judge him as a European person if it's a European girl men will be chasing her to

get uh photograph taken with her uh he will get a special respect in India he

will not be seen as an average Indian ever he will never

assimilate okay so do you think I mean I heard this like I got these questions

from couple of academics basically so do you think India's Constitution today matches the societal

values uh no in no one even knows what the the what the the the what is written

on the parchment paper uh no one cares about it Indian constitution has no

significance anywhere I have goam over my lifetime met some of the very top

politicians judges policemen politicians bureaucrats no one really cares about

the Constitutions or even the laws what they care about is how to extract

the most bribes from the client from the citizens they are

allory and that of garbage paper which no one

really cares cares or pays any attention to and that includes the Supreme Court

of India uh if you look at it U the the Chief Justice of U India right now is

going crazily after a person who said something really degraded about his

parents now um at the same time U you know rape cases happen murders happen

that the Supreme Court court is not interested Supreme Court is only after those people who are being destroyed on

the social media similarly um from what I understood Kashmir was an independent

part within India it should never have been Incorporated within within India according in to article 370 U Supreme

Court just without U taking the real law into consideration uh considered that to

be a part of India similarly if you look at the aodha ram Temple the there is no

way you can prove whether it was a real Temple before a mosque was built over it

or not uh but then um this Supreme Court operated on the basis of what the public

wanted rather than what the law said so constitution of India has no value and I

tell you you can go to the courts of India you can go to the police stations of India no one is uh has a clue what

the Constitution or even the written law says they do what works what they think is what they uh they can get away with

and what gets them the most bribes like because these laws and um

all these like compliances is not very clear it's very hard to do business also

a lot of business people they say that is it is that one of the reasons like

lot of wealth migration happening in India last few years especially after

covid well wealth migration has often happened from India for a long time one

of the biggest accidentes of people Indians happened uh soon after

India became so-called independent of the British uh and similarly wealth has

always left India and that is why you have uh control on Capital in India that

is why government of India restricts movement of your money from out from India to other countries

there's something called havala and that works very efficiently you can give your

Indian rupee in cash to a local guy and a few hours later you will get your US

Dollars wherever you are in the world in cash delivered to your doorstep so uh

they are capital controls which mean that people do this havala transaction they they they concoct all kinds of

schemes to move their money abroad now Indian higher class which is the Amani

or adani kind of people they really understand what is happening to the country because they are very close to

the Pol itical order of the country the dilip suan kind of people there's a huge

amount of corruption and they know about it they also understand that the society

is falling apart so these people uh the very rich people of India have

historically been moving their money abroad and they are increasingly moving their money abroad and this goes back to

your first question when you asked me how is India improving in terms of corruption or not and I said no it's

getting worse the richest people of India understand that India is getting worse by the day and it will worse get

far worse than it is today so they are moving their money abroad uh similarly

the higher middle class is also moving a lot of their money to Dubai and Abu

Dhabi and Singapore and um and surprisingly U goam

I'm in currently in China and I visited a chemical Factory last week in China

and all the ingredients of that chemical Factory come from India but the final Pro but they don't

operate in India because they fully understand how difficult it is to operate in in India how what the level

of corruption in the country is so they prefer not to operate in India they have to import all the stuff to China and

then export it from China despite the fact that they now face higher tariffs

when they are supplying their end product to to the United States so that is the how bad the situation of the

country is but also um the the only people who send money to India are the

people who work as migrant labors in the Middle East and in Singapore and in Hong Kong and these are the people who are

who are you know their families are very poor in India and they need money right now so they send money to India but as

the wealthier you go the less likely you are to send your to India and in fact

from what I understand the the nris who live in Australia and the United States and Canada don't really send money back

to India the educated ones they prefer to buy properties uh in the western Society rather than send that money to

India yeah so in order to better ourselves in global stage let's say uh

what ought to be our focus is it like many things like education entrepreneurship spiritual Judiciary

leadership like any any any way you can can we can focus on that yeah yeah

that's a very hypothetical question because none of those things are going to happen uh India will continue to

degrade it will continue to fall apart it will continue to become a more materialistic and pervert Society uh

because uh that is the underpinning culture of that Society on which a veneer of culture was imposed a veneer

of civiliz ization was imposed by the British and the French and the Portuguese so India's underpinning

rotten feral wild culture is continue is going to continue to surface now we can

talk in hypothetical terms on what could improve India and I would say hey just

bring in a 100,000 uh Europeans to run run India or

maybe half a million Europeans to run India but that isn't going to happen because European are not as competent as

they used to be 200 years back but moreover the way the world has changed and the way the Democratic uh because of

democracy the thinking of Indians have changed they aren't going to bring in half a million Europeans to come and uh

rule the country because firstly before you do that you have to bring in an

Awakening among Indians how are they going to end up bringing in Europeans to

run the country something that actually Dubai and Singapore do all the time they want to bring in the best of the people

from around the world to run their countries but not indians so uh how you

you really need that Awakening among Indians before you can frame a culture

in which you start inviting the very best people from abroad to to return to

in to come to India and uh to administer that country uh and you know I see no

way that is going to happen under the current the way the world works today so

um really I don't see a way out for India now U Prosperity education etc etc

everything has been has had perverse consequence on

India uh because Indian leadership has continued to degrade if you don't have

proper leadership um the the incentives for people to use wealth and education

for good purposes are simply not there they are incent in disincentivized from

using those things the right way so because we have bad leadership and that

leadership continues to wor sin means that India will continue to degrade now

we can talk in hypothetical terms on how we can improve the leadership but I

can't improve the leadership because my vote doesn't count and uh the the way

the underpinning culture of India is the leadership will actually continue to worsen as time goes by and on that topic

like if we sometimes crack any discussion always the first thing and

the most profound thing is we have lot of people and we have lot of poverty and

that's where the discussion starts and that's where the discussion ends yes it is understandable lot of people might be

a problem but is that the main problem no it's a symptom of the problem uh you

know we we have uh we don't have a lot of wealth India does not have a lot of

wealth people who claim that India has wealth are fooling themselves and fooling others Indian GDP per capita is

only about $2,500 uh now that is really an insignificant amount of uh economic

contri economic productivity of the country in the modern era of Technology

where technology helps you produce so much so Indian GDP

is basically non-existent now um you know depending

on convenience Indians say that we have a lot of people which to them also can

mean that that gives it a superpower status or it it it gives it um a a

demographic dividend but at the same time when the time comes and they really

can't prove that that demographic dividend exists they want to now convert that demographic dividend

into demographic liability now these are all symptoms of the problem we India has

pollution India has poverty India has overpopulation these are symptoms of

problems and the simp the the real problem the core problem the foundational the problem is that Indians

are immoral irrational people who cannot work together who

cannot come together to operate in a capitalistic economy in which that

they work in harmony with other people for a win-win outcome Indians don't

think that way and that is why goam I like to say that an Indian organization of two people has one person too many uh

because everything is dysfunctional in that country so when you cannot bring in people and when you cannot produce

anything you will be poor and you have more people because you don't really

think uh about uh whether you can bring up more children as you go up now there

there is no shortage of condoms or other contraceptives available in the market

and they are available off the shelf today and it is not even that people are shy about asking to buy these things

these days so and you can get them delivered through all kinds of Amazon or

home delivery so there's no problem with getting contraceptives the real issue is

that PE Indians cannot think about tomorrow and they cannot think about tomorrow because fundamentally Indians

are immoral irrational people who cannot think about tomorrow uh so you know look

at it the other way Europeans did not become wealthy out of nowhere uh you

know they they were poor as well they were wretched as well they were overpopulated as well probably given the

context of the availability of Natural Resources they had but they started

thinking forward they started to work in harmony with other people so that they could build Capital so that they could

increase their productivity they they started thinking about philosophy and ideas even when they were poor so you

have to have this spark of um wanting to

wake up before your symptoms will dissipate but these are all symptoms

population and pollution these are all symptoms of the problem the fundamental

problem is that Indians are immoral people irrational people if you talk with an Indian these things always come

up they they uh interact with you very irrationally and you actually said that

rightly in your question that with most Indians the conversation ends and begins with think about they have there's no

Nuance in their conversation there's no sophistication in their conversation there are sloganeering in this

conversation and that is what I said that even educated Indians are not

interested in ideas they are not interested in philosophy they're not interested in moral values and that is

really the core problem of the country which even the educated and Rich Indians suffer from which is what makes me most

pessimistic about India because when I see Chinese becoming richer or east

Europeans becoming richer they become socially more conscious they become more philosophically oriented whereas that's

not what I see among Indians the Richer they become the more pervert they become the more materialistic they become and

the more class conscious they become um you know I really if you want to let me

give you a very interesting example I work in the Capital Market and um I have I work for some uh couple

of big funds I was working full-time for a big fund earlier and when I was

working for that fund I just called myself an analyst I never had a business you know a proper business card I just

had a card with my name and the address on it because in the Western in North

America people don't think so much about your designation um if I called up a

company in the United States or Canada or Australia and I said hey I want to

understand your company um firstly there would would always be

some worked what the company was about there was no problem in getting through

to someone to talk to but usually because I was I was working for a big

fund uh the investor relations person would almost always say hey I will

transfer you to my CEO because you should be talking with the CEO whereas

surprisingly I used to monitor I used to run the Indian portfolio of the same company fund and when I called up Indian

companies the question was always what my designation was and that they would

allow me to meet with talk with only that person who was compatible or

equivalent to my designation in the company and I was always struggling with what my designation in my company was

because that's not what how I thought that's not what what I did so India is a

very class conscious people and the Richer and educ

more educated they become the worse the more perverse their thinking becomes

unfortunately as you uh like extensively worked in China I know that and I saw

some of your videos around China that will not be China so how China is currently positioned on the global

stage well goam firstly you should never no one should be using India and China

in the same sentence these are one is Mars and one is Jupiter there's no

connection between the two countries these are completely two different societies China is a country which

continues to improve it continues to improve every day every 3 months that I

come back to China I see Improvement in China it becomes a better country every

time I go India becomes a worst country every time I go to that country so

there's no comparison China is a great country and in fact China has become such a good country goam that with my

money I can carve out a lifestyle which is much better than I can have in North

America and no doubt no wonder I spend actually a lot of time in East Asia

these days I love South Korea I enjoy being in Japan I enjoy being going to

smaller places in Japan and I enjoy going to living in spending my time in China

these are great places China continues to improve things are cheap the quality

of everything improves and I was yesterday I'm currently in China kotam and I went fruit picking at a Farm in

China yesterday in a in a small village some of the tastiest fruit I

have ever had now I have driven around New Zealand I have um I always thought

that kiwi oranges were among the best oranges I always thought that the

strawberries and uh uh and other berries were among the best uh Canada had among

the best of those but that's only until you have tried some of the Chinese fruit

they are good they are high quality and they're tasty and that's what's happening with virtually every Product

of China it is improving and it continues to improve more importantly

goam people Chinese are becoming more and more civilized with time they line

up they queue up they are um they are respectful of your time they say thank

you and please um there is an order in the system and um so

often they provide me better quality than uh I could afford to get in the

western Society so um so China is becoming a better place and India is get

getting becoming a worse place so I prefer not to use the two countries in

the same sentence when talking with people because these two countries are incomparable now here is another

solution to India's problems goam I am a western guy at

heart I prefer to live in the western Society for many reasons I love the Western values I love the western

civilization I enjoy being around Western People

however India is so far away from the Western society and its mentality is so

far away from Western values that the very best thing India can do for itself

is to become a back office of China India should unconditionally

surrender to China because it's Armed Forces cannot stop any uh attack by

China anyway so India is wasting its money and resources and Talent on um on

constructing an armed forces to defend from China because they can't they could not win a War in 1962 when Indian

economy and Chinese economy were similar economies Now Chinese economy is five to

six times bigger than Indian economy so Indian India can't defend itself against

China so give up competing on armed forces and in fact unconditionally

surrender because the areas that you are fighting for are basically desert they

have no real value but moreover open up gates for Chinese to come to India and

open up companies and back offices back office operations in India that will do

the best for Indian poor people because Indian poor people

need need work now as I said I went fruit picking in China and all what you

do is you go to a farm you pick up fruit and they and you can eat all as much as you want inside a farm and that is not

counted and they weigh the fruit that you take to the counter and then you pay them a very small amount of money why do

they do that because they have shortage of Labor in China now what if India

opened itself up to Chinese and Indian labor poor people could enter China and

work as migrant labors in China to earn money what would be wrong about it but

so so that is would be one big solution to India's problem I think India

should give the respect that is due to China

all right so on that we should end our conversation here jant it is a nice

talking to you and as you all know uh if you want to live your life in your own terms this is the right place this is

URL podcast thank you John for your time thank you thank you for the opportunity go thank you [Music]